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Dr. Rob Campbell's avatar

Thank you Richard. I think I have made some of the points you draw attention to but thanks. Having concern about actions and consequences IS a moral position that's why I have made reference to consequentialism and have pointed out that it is the actions of both parties that should concern us rather than labels. I'm not really sure what an 'anti-moralist' is - could you explain please.

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richardstevenhack's avatar

Response to The Busker's "Israel-Palestine Weekly Update"

The distinction between Hamas actions and Israel's actions is easily made. Israel is an occupying state. Hamas is a resistance organization. Therefore, nothing Israel does can be considered "morally correct." So the question resolves around whether the actions of Hamas can be so considered.

People like to condemn the deaths of Israeli civilians at Hamas' hands. There is an assumption that every Jew in Israel who is not in the military is a legitimate "civilian". There are two problems with this. One, most Israelis serve in the IDF at some point - which ipso facto makes them military targets, whether they are in uniform at the time or not and once they have been released from service and are now in the reserves. Second, EVERY Jew (or anyone else) in Israel who did not emigrate before the the state of Israel was formed and/or who did not acquire his property by legitimately purchasing it from a Palestinian is an "occupier" by definition - and is thus a legitimate target.

There is, of course, the question of strategy. As I've always said with regard to so-called "terrorism", it is pointless to gun down random individuals. You attack the leaders of your enemies and their capable enforcers. You don't waste efforts on meaningless individuals in a vain attempt to get the government you oppose overthrown by its own population.

This is the Carlos Marighella concept, articulated in his "Minimanual of the Urban Guerilla" described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimanual_of_the_Urban_Guerrilla. It's an invalid concept. If one goes back to the time of "The People's Will" in Russia, one finds that group explicitly advocating producing terror in the minds of the government - not the civilian population. That is the correct approach.

As I have often asked, "Why the hell is Benjamin Netanyahu still alive?" He and his cronies are the legitimate and strategically correct targets. But it was Arafat and his PLO idiots who engaged in random terrorism internationally in order to bring attention to the Palestinians' plight - and thus got the Palestinians labeled as "terrorists" - an appellation that Hamas, a legitimate local resistance front, has now inherited.

It is now pretty clear from reports from Israel that the Hamas attack on October 7 was directed against military targets primarily and with the additional goal of obtaining civilian hostages to exchange from Palestinian hostage in Israeli prisons. The attack on the musical event appears to have been opportunistic, not originally intended.

Many of the alleged "civilians" killed were actually IDF or former IDF. Many of the actual civilians killed were likely killed by panicked police and IDF military who used indiscriminate fire against people they could not identify positively as Hamas. It has even been suggested that there may have been orders to do so under the alleged "Hannibal Directive" which is intended to prevent IDF personnel from being taken hostage, although there appears to be no proof of this.

Finally, released Israeli hostages so far have not condemned their treatment by their Hamas captors.

All of this is putting a severe dent in the description of Hamas as "terrorists". But nothing can erase the clear images and videos of mass casualties among actual civilians in Gaza - as well as the terrorist actions of Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

In any event, as a committed "anti-moralist", moral and ethical questions do not interest me. What matters are actions and consequences, both on an individual level and scaled up to society and civilization.

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